The Lenses of Leadership | The Zero Dot Podcast #12

The moment you step into leadership, doesn't matter what role that is, if anyone's
reporting into you, you are no longer responsible for the success of that business.

That's not your job anymore.

Not even a little bit.

You are now responsible for the people who are now responsible for the success of the
business.

We're live.

live.

We made it.

This is me for the whole show.

Not gonna move my head.

Viewers, I'm real sorry about this one, but I commit to a bit really hard.

Also, I can't hear you the other guys, so it's gonna be me just kinda talking over them
like an asshole.

Step one, get a motion tracking camera.

Step two, don't move your head.

Correct.

You know that thing where you can go to a chicken and grab it by the back of the neck and
it's like, done, I can't move?

I of feel like that.

I kind of feel like I can't move.

Help.

HUH!

I yeah, it looks nice.

It looked nice either way.

But it looks nice now.

It's kind of a lie.

Hey, you wanna see a bit of physical comedy?

This podcast known for physical comedy.

uh I, over the holiday season, got a few Christmas gifts.

One of them was a Bluetooth speaker.

Have I showed you my Bluetooth speaker yet?

You have not.

Is it blue?

Is it green?

It's, yeah, yes you did.

The blue tooth.

That's right.

I remember.

I remember.

Yeah.

That's perfect.

That's so good.

For the listeners at home, I held up a normal speaker.

Don't know why they were laughing.

Don't know why that would be fun, but I guess you should maybe watch.

Maybe do that.

Think about that next time you're feeling content with yourself.

See, John has this slander against the listeners, but what he doesn't know is that as a
listener, as an audio only, I can say whatever I want.

And what John was holding was so scandalous, you don't even want to see it.

You don't even want to.

I did the viewers a disservice today.

I'm sorry.

That shouldn't be a speaker.

Sounds shouldn't come out of that.

I realize what I've done and I feel shame.

Hopefully we'll find a way past this.

And if not, that's a really funny reason to end the show.

It is.

What happened to Zero Dot?

Oh, there was like a prop comedy thing that was so bad they just quit forever.

So that's that.

Hey, welcome back to the Zero Dot Podcast.

I'm come be with my friends John and Daniel here.

John and Daniel, it's been a week.

It's been a motherfucker of a week.

Yeah it has.

Woooo boy!

a big ol' stupid ass week.

If you're listening to this and your week's been good, savor that.

Hold that dear to your heart.

Love that.

Treat it tender.

going to be mad at you that you had a good week, no, I'm absolutely, I'm so happy for you.

You had a great week.

You deserve to have a good week.

Seriously.

Yeah.

Yeah.

just really on that note, like uh here's my permission you dear observer of this show.

uh If anyone else is ever unhappy, you can still be happy.

It's okay.

You can feel for them.

You get empathy for them.

Don't let your shine be invalidated by that.

Right.

So the other day I was talking to somebody and I was talking about how like shit sucks.

I have a fun shoulder.

Maybe you've seen if you're a viewer, you see me do this in the show.

That's me like massaging the shoulder that's fucked up.

Right.

I was talking about that the day and someone was like, yeah.

I was like, why you look sad?

They were like, well, I just wanted to tell you that I got really good sleep for the first
time in a while.

Like, you should fucking tell me that.

Like, I'm so happy for you.

Like, it doesn't have to be like, I'm sad, be sad with me.

That's not how empathy works.

I want you to be like, shit, sorry about your soldier dog.

But like, no, I want to hear your good news.

Your good news is my good news.

I tie it all boats, baby.

That's how we do it.

So lean in, lean in, my friend.

The human brain has a stickiness quotient when it comes to compliments versus feedback.

It's the same thing for good news and bad news.

You hear some bad news?

Give me like five, six, seven, give me tons of good news.

Help me balance the equation out.

That's the best.

It's awesome.

Our brains love that.

We respond to that so well.

So in that vein, John, give me some good news.

You know, I'm gonna do that, but first I'm gonna give you a compliment.

That was a fun little sag.

I kinda knew it was coming because of the structure of our show, but I just, I don't know,
just rode the wave, felt nice, that was fun.

I got good news, I got good news.

I saw something, which is the point of my good news.

My news today is about vision and the importance thereof.

I have, fun John fact, I have better than perfect vision.

My body is falling apart, but my peepers are doing super duper well.

And it is a thing that I've been grateful for forever.

2013.

But here's the thing, my news today isn't about standard issue vision problems, standard
issue vision problems, that's kind of fun to say.

But this is not fun to say, trachoma.

Trachoma is the world's leading cause of infectious blindness and in the entire ass world,
the entire ass world.

For the first time ever, it has fallen below 100 million cases per the WHO, aka the World
Health Organization, but I it that way every time.

The disease typically spreads via fingers, flies, other things that carry the germs from
an infected person, and it was at 1.5 billion people in 2002.

That is a, well, sorry, the number of people at risk for developing it.

There, clarified.

It wasn't that many people had it, but it was that much of a thing.

Mm-hmm, down to 97.1 million.

That's a 94 % decline.

I don't care which branch of science, the science you come from, a 94 % change in
something, it's fucking bananas.

yeah, just the thing that's also cool is the thing that's changed it wasn't like Dr.

I-Man who came out and like fought off all the diseases.

It's just straight up nations spending time working on sanitation, antibiotic rollouts,
and just like, yeah, it's just people being kind to people, just doing things.

And it is...

It's just fucking cool to see.

Before we bask in the glory, I need to tell you this story that rhymed.

I hate when that happens.

No, I hate it.

Oh no, I hope it doesn't happen again shortly.

No, no, no, no, no, no, So long ago, my dad was like, hey John, you what we're doing?

And I was like, what are we doing?

He was like, we're going to the Dominican Republic and we're going to work in a free
clinic to help people.

Cause he's a pharmacist and I'm a young boy.

So we went down there.

I'm not a young boy anymore.

Dear listener, if you thought that this light, childish, cherubic voice is a young boy,
I'm a 38-year-old man.

I am not a young boy anymore.

I'm a young man.

No, I'm not.

I'm a regular man.

But here's the deal.

When we went there, they were like, your dad's in the pharmacy.

What do you want to do?

And I was like, I'm just a young boy.

I don't know.

Put me whereest thou wilt.

And they said, don't use all the English.

That's strange.

And then they also said, to the optometry with you.

And they sent me off.

And I worked under a very kind doctor.

And...

we would have lines for people who came to get glasses that would be like hours long.

was tons and tons of people.

Also, just a fun, interesting note, this happened in a prison that was no longer a prison.

So the ah aesthetics of the uh office was very weird because it was like bars on the
windows, come fix your health.

But it was.

If you've sat other sidebar within two sidebars, if you've never been to the American
Republic, fucking go.

It is the people there are insane.

Like in a good way, like in a really wonderful way.

There's...

this vibrant, almost aggressive kindness down there.

um There are some economic challenges, do be sure.

can...

Yes.

you're talking about the DR and not Haiti, which is on the other side of it.

Totally different situation, right?

Yeah.

Yeah, the Dominican Republic.

The Republic of Dominicano.

um My dad goes there very often to volunteer and consequently has a significant amount of
Dominican Republic clothing and he does not look like a Dominican at all.

He looks like me with much less hair.

uh So, all that aside, I bring up this story because it's about vision.

I worked in the optometry office and I loved this.

This is another, it's kind of like a mini-good thing.

um The doctor told me...

people would come in, they would have somebody do the eye exam, get the measurements of
what's wrong and what people could use.

And then he told me there was a different prescription.

So what would happen is the person would come over to me and I'd be like, well, what's
your prescription?

And I would go get them glasses.

And he told me there was one, and I forget what the code was.

And I might be narking on kind doctors everywhere.

And if I am, I'm so sorry.

But he'd be like, oh yeah, for you, you're like this by this, you're this by And then
whatever the number was, it wasn't a real prescription.

And it meant this person just wants to have glasses, but their eyes are fine.

So we had separate glasses with just glass panes that didn't do anything at all.

that's awesome.

like, why are you here if you don't need the...

And then I remember that like people, they're people and they just want to feel good.

They want to feel like they look good.

They want to feel included.

They want to participate.

And I just like fucking shout outs to you, doctor, whoever you were.

It was just a really cool gesture.

I really liked that.

So that's my story.

And also, Tricoma is going away and that's a, that's a really giant fucking deal.

We should go back to that for a second.

Yeah.

If you've, I have a friend, a very dear friend and

She has migraines sometimes that like temporarily script revision and just the fear that
she experiences during those times knowing full well it will come back um is significant.

So to imagine you're, you you have a bacterial disease and suddenly your vision is going
away.

Like to begin to eradicate that, what a fucking cool thing, man.

I am always happy to talk about when science is doing cool stuff that works.

Cause it turns out it's pretty consistent, takes team effort, but it works.

People are good at doing things.

um You love to see it.

Ha ha ha ha.

For you see, he's used a classic phrase and also it is relevant to the topic.

therefore two things, a play upon the very words themselves.

Good show, I say.

gentlemen, for those of you that are listening only, let it be known that at Zero Dot, we
are master punters of the greatest kind.

And Daniel is the king of them all.

So you have just heard and witnessed, one of the greatest displays of that.

And that will keep going on throughout the Zero Dot journey that we are on.

So thank you, Daniel.

Immaculate vibes, immaculate.

Alright John, well that's good.

And you know I love about your story is that there's always good things going on.

There's always things that we're working on to make the world a better place.

It's really easy when you're living in...

I'm doing this for the listeners...

waving generally at everything in the world.

And you're just basking in that to go, everything's going to you know what.

So it's always nice to be reminded, you know what?

The hard work, the good work is still being done.

You know what also happens John?

When all the...

Bad stuff is happening.

And there's a lot, especially if you're listening to this episode when I think you're
listening to this episode, especially here in the Americas.

There's stuff happening that we should be paying attention to or not because it's not
populating our news cycle.

So John and Daniel, I want to talk to you a little bit about what we should keep keeping
our eyes on uh as it relates to the United States.

But this affects other countries as well.

And that is hunger, hunger.

Mmm.

Did know, John, that in the United States, we are the largest distributor of food and
goods across the entire world?

So by that metric, oh everyone in the United States should be well fed, right?

I would believe yes, but the initial way we're going to this feels like perhaps the answer
will not be.

no right now in the United States about 47 million people don't know where their next meal
is coming from that's nearly one in seven Americans including more than 13 million

children and this isn't just a few places John This is the scary part hunger is found.

I'm gonna make sure I repeat this for you hunger is found in every single County in the
United States there are three thousand two hundred and forty four counties about in all

the United States and every single one

There are people struggling with food insecurity, food issues, and hunger, especially
child hunger.

That's devastating.

So the question is, why aren't we hearing more about this in the news?

Because right now, as I said before, the national conversation is dominated by other
headline catastrophes, waves, hands, you're sure what that's all about.

Meanwhile, hunger in America grows quietly without dramatic visuals, but with real
consequences for real families here at home.

But John, as I indicated to you before,

The United States of America is one of the largest, if not the largest, food distributor
in the world.

So it's not an issue about food.

There's plenty of food to go around.

It's about the resources to spread that food places and especially money.

Families are struggling to juggle rent, child care, prescriptions, utilities, and then
trying to buy enough groceries for everyone to keep fed.

That squeeze pushes millions deeper into hardship, especially now as we enter 2026, where

I don't think it's controversial to say inflation has happened, ladies and gentlemen, and
it's probably going to get a significant amount worse.

So I think we need to care about this.

And I think we need to put our eyes on this.

And the good news is I have a way in which we can do just something really small that can
make a significant amount of difference, because I think this is everyone's problem

globally.

People should not be starving.

No matter where you are socioeconomically, people should have access to food, whether it's
your child, whether you're senior.

If you don't have food, it weakens your communities.

It disrupts local economies.

It disrupts long-term well-being.

Heck, it disrupts your earlier story before about people just doing better, about being
cleanlier and nicer and following protocols.

If we don't have enough food, then guess what?

That number that John, you shared before, that's going to go up, not down.

And we definitely want that to happen.

So there's a lot of different places you can go to for this, but one that I'm going to
recommend to you all, and they're not a sponsor.

I'm just recommending them because they're just a good place to go to, is go to
feedingamerica.org.

And what I like about feedingamerica.org,

is that the money that you spend, so let's say it's one US dollar or your Regency
equivalent, can provide at least up to 10 meals to someone who needs it.

You can also find volunteer opportunities near you.

You can go to feedingamerica.org to find where those volunteering opportunities are,
literally put in your zip code if you're in the US, and they will tell you exactly where

you can volunteer.

Or you can absolutely donate canned goods or preservative goods.

But I'm gonna say a note about this, John, because I'm very passionate about this.

I just donated a lot of canned goods at a local rec center right before Christmas.

I'm glad I did it.

The community needed it, et cetera.

But I want to just make sure people are aware that canned goods is good, but what's better
than canned goods is always money.

We have this thing in America especially where we believe, if you're that desperate, you
need money.

I don't want to give you money.

Instead, I want to just give you food.

I want to buy the food for you.

And that's fine.

And that's okay.

But money is what goes further.

What ends up happening in these places that do have enough food, because remember, food
isn't the issue, it's money.

They have enough food, you get the canned goods, those things still technically do expire.

And we have so much food, food is expiring at an alarming rate that once the food expires,
they can't serve it to people anymore.

So if you want to give these agencies like Feeding America resources to be able to do
something about this and really tackle this on, just a couple bucks their way.

goes a long way.

And in fact, if I can reference an article that Vox.com said, they argued that $100 a year
per household, meaning if you're a family of four and you want to donate a total of $100

US a year to this effort, that would sizably make such a huge, magnificent effort that we
could finally say that not every single county in the United States is suffering from uh

food and hunger issues.

So once again, I'm recommending feedingamerica.org.

You can go there right now.

Check a couple bucks if you feel like it.

If not, that's totally fine.

You can check out where you volunteer.

If you do have canned goods lying around, that's also a perfectly serviceable option.

They'll give you places where you can either serve food, volunteer food, pack food, send
food, et cetera, and make sure that kids don't go hungry.

And I say this with this in mind.

As we deal with this in America, it's probably, we're in the year 2026, you know that a
lot of federally funded programs are getting axed in terms of money.

So really right now,

Money is the savior of the day.

Things like SNAP and community school food access funding, that's all being cut right now
by a lot of different jurisdictions.

So the greatest thing we can do right now is we just throw a couple of dollars with
whatever money you do have or volunteer your time, which is massive, or volunteer your

packed goods if you have some of that as well, if you have it lying around and give back.

Because personally speaking, I just truly believe with the way that we have things, with
all the privileges we have in life, no one should be starving.

And so I just want to point a highlight to that.

I know it's something we hear about quite a lot, but I don't want us to forget about it
because it's getting worse, not better, while other things are going on.

John?

I'm really glad you brought it up.

I'm going to click this button and I just gave him 10 bucks.

And I, I'm, I like that simple.

I like when you have a reputable thing that you can just give to and trust.

And I do know, I knew Feeding America pretty before this and that they are, they're a good
one.

I also feel like just to talk big picture, when things get hard, people don't get their
basic needs met.

they don't get their basic needs met, they're going to find ways to get them met.

things kind of unscrew, you pull on the thread, the whole thing starts to unravel.

This is a really kind way to help people feel safe.

And it's also a way to help people feel like there's a team.

One of the hardest parts of modern living is the notion that there's so many problems and
there's nobody else on the fucking team.

The team is big.

There's a lot of us and we're on the same fucking team.

And we are at a place where we could be in a post-scarcity world.

have the ability to feed every single person.

I will save my comments on that system for other time, but not for long.

uh In that it is

not for the people.

But um if you can today throw a couple bucks at that thing, do it up.

And if you can't, that's okay.

But you're on the same team.

And if you spread the word, if you tell the person, maybe they throw a few bucks, that's
also great, that's okay.

uh I want you to subscribe to our channel and our show, but today I'd rather you do that
if that helps.

Absolutely.

If you have the choice of giving $3.99 to our Patreon, which is a pretty good value, or
giving a couple dollars to this, always pick this every single time.

Always, if you can.

absolutely.

Yeah, there's a lot on this subject, John, so I appreciate that.

yeah, so to close out that subject, again, I'm very passionate about this.

If you don't have the money, that's fine.

But if you do have the money and you're trying to tell yourself, no, I'd rather give food
canisters or prepackaged food because I feel better morally about that, no.

If you have the money, that's always the better call.

If you don't, prepackaged food is fine.

And then, of course, volunteering is incredible.

I'll always say that forever.

Every organization I talk to that does this stuff, not just Feeding America, but others,
they all say the same thing.

Our food is expiring at such a fast rate that the packaged foods, it's fine, but like,
that's not the problem we're trying to solve, right?

Yeah.

So John, I know you know a little bit about what I do, which is assessment and leadership
consulting.

Also public speaking, also coaching, also all that kind of fun stuff.

Most of what I do is I go around the country and I talk to people about leadership.

We do all kinds of fun things.

Like I ask them questions and I get them to say the things that they've always believed
but haven't allowed themselves to believe in.

We play fun games with each other.

I give them inspiring speeches sometimes, but mostly it's just one-on-one conversations
with folks about leadership.

And John, I am so happy to tell you that 85 % of the time people are happy to talk to me.

They love the concept of leadership training.

They want to know more.

They know it's their moral responsibility to do better so that they can mold the next
generation.

15 % of them, sit in the back, arms crossed, and think one of two things.

Mm.

This whole thing's horseshit.

I got better things to do.

I can't believe I was told I had to sit in on the stupid talk.

Ugh.

Or, or, this is one of my favorites.

The guy that's, the guy or girl who's been a leader for 30, 35, maybe even 40 years, or
nearing retirement, they sit sometimes in the front, sometimes in the back, doesn't matter

where they sit, and they go, I already know everything.

I'm the master.

I'm the best.

And you know, I love that.

So I love a good challenge.

And what ends up happening is we have an open dialogue.

We challenge each other and I learn from them and they learn from me.

And what comes through the fold is the person that thinks they don't need to learn
anything about leadership, what they don't understand is that what's missing from them is

the way in which they're looking at leadership.

People look at leadership like I have title X, people report into me, I gotta get things
done.

And what they don't understand is that's just all a masquerade.

And that when you're a leadership, when people report into you, it's a whole other ball
game.

And sadly, no one tells you about this stuff.

But once you understand it, once you reframe everything in this particular way, not only
is your life easier, but you inspire more people, you have more efficacy, meaning you're

more effective as a leader, and you go, gosh darn it, why didn't I do this sooner?

And anyone can be a leader, not even with a title.

All they have to do is reframe their lens of how they look at it.

Hmm.

I have a patented 12 lenses of leadership.

I'm not gonna go through all 12 with you right now, but I'd like to go through at least
two of them with you.

The first two, the most important ones, and ask for your feedback, comments, and questions
as we go along, because I find that once people accept these lenses, or at least start

tackling these subjects in this particular way, and start thinking of it this way, it
completely transforms them, changes them, and makes them realize that, this whole

leadership thing, I could actually do it.

Meaning, our zero-dot listeners right now.

That's you, I'm pointing to you right now.

If you adopt some of these, you can literally be a leader for your people, your community,
your family, your friends, everything else, better than you were yesterday.

You interested in that?

Hell yeah, man.

I think that's amazing.

right, awesome.

So I said to you before, there's 12 lenses.

We'll only go through maybe two of them right now.

There's the first one, the first lens, probably the most important lens.

And it comes from this place.

John, do you have people that report into you or have you ever had a job where people have
reported into you?

I did very briefly, I did not care for it.

uh No, no, I felt overly responsible and unable to tend to the things that they had going
on sufficiently and sort of then a choice to either underserve them or spend all my time.

It was rough.

Very much so.

gotcha, gotcha.

um How did you get that role?

Did you apply for it?

Did you promote for it?

Was it fallen told to you?

Okay.

me left the job.

So it was like, someone's got to do it.

You've been here the longest go.

And it was, there's a principle about this.

recall.

Yeah, okay.

you didn't get any leadership manual on this stuff, right?

Like how to do it.

was just other guy or girl was doing it.

So do it.

Yeah, yeah, it was almost a quote of, it's not that hard, you just blank and then blank
was not a very thorough description.

uh That's often the case, isn't it?

Right?

that's frustrating.

We do this thing where we get really good at our current skill and we go, hey, you're good
at that thing.

Do something that is totally the opposite upwards and get paid a lot more for it.

But no training.

We do that a lot.

And so I believe, I don't believe, I know this, we're all set up to fail in this capacity,
whether you're voluntold to do it, whether you're in the room and people are asking for

ideas and you kind of don't want to give your idea because you're not sure it's the right
one, but then

the guy next to you finally says something and that's the idea you go with.

You're like, oh, thank God, I don't have to speak up anymore.

But then 10 years from now, that guy's gone and you're only one left.

And how are you gonna be able to rise up to that?

set ourselves up to fail.

And so in that way, I'd like to offer you the very first lens of leadership, which is
this.

You get a job, brand new job, and it doesn't matter what job you have.

It doesn't matter.

If it's a team lead, which by the way, team lead is a very sneaky way organizations try to
say, which is we want you to have responsibility over people, but still do the work you

originally doing and pay you a lot less money for it.

Team lead is a recent new phenomenon that I absolutely can't stand, but a lot of companies
do it.

So if you're a team lead, you're a supervisor, meaning you supervise people, you literally
oversee them or you manage them or you're a middle manager, you're a C-suite, whatever it

is, once you have people that report into you, this following fundamental truth now comes
into play.

And the sooner you realize it,

everything else falls into place.

And it's this.

John, before you are a leader, a manager, fancy title, you're in that job that someone
told you, don't worry, it's easy, all you gotta do is blank, and you're like, yeah, sure,

whatever.

Before that moment happened, you were, as an individual contributor, responsible for the
success and the goals of your business, your organization, your nonprofit, whatever.

You were the one doing it.

So, you know.

I don't know if you experienced this, John, but a lot of people in smaller companies,
they're in the trenches, they're doing the work, and the CEO might come by for a tour, and

they shake people's hand, and they might say something like, John, thank you for all the
work you do.

You're responsible for our success, and gives you that trademark smile, and you think
they're full of shit, but you're smiling anyway because you want that paycheck.

Well, it turns out, even if HR told them to say that, or their lawyer told them to say
that, or their PR person told them to say that, what they said was actually true.

You were responsible for the company or the business or the organization's success at that
point in time.

The moment you step into leadership, doesn't matter what role that is, if anyone's
reporting into you, you are no longer responsible for the success of that business.

That's not your job anymore.

Not even a little bit.

You are now responsible for the people who are now responsible for the success of the
business.

So doesn't fall on your shoulders.

It's not on you.

Things don't have to quote unquote get done.

Your people have to get the things done.

So now everything is reframed from a place of, how can I help my people to make sure this
can happen?

What challenges can I take away from them to make sure they can make the magic happen?

What can I absolve of them?

What heat do I got to take on their plate and take the blame for while they get all the
successes and make the magic happen?

How can I make sure my people feel developed and supported and they feel good about the
job?

Now, I get feedback about this a lot.

just, nah man, because my boss is barking at me.

They want things from me.

They need this report.

They need this.

They need that.

They need that.

Yeah.

That's because they don't know what the heck you're supposed to do.

All they know is they want good results to happen.

And the way you get good results is focusing on your people.

So it becomes this song of dance of kind of telling them kind of what they want to hear,
but also focusing on what actually has to get done and then focusing on eliminating

problems for your people.

And this has so many different ripple effects.

One is...

You no longer view your people with animosity.

You no longer think that they're problem children.

You go, if I don't help solve this problem for this one employee that I have, then this
thing can't get done.

What do I have to do about it?

You start viewing people with an assumption of innocence.

Because of course, everyone wants to do a good job.

Everyone wants to do a good enough job.

They get a paycheck.

They get to walk away from that knowing that they did a good enough job.

What can you help them with that?

Right.

And in this particular capacity, it also makes your job significantly simpler.

Because again, I know that

in my early days as a leader, I thought I had to take on the world.

I had to be up at like four in the morning for every single call.

had to leave at seven, eight, nine o'clock at night till the office.

I had to take on everything.

When I'm like, well, you know what?

No one shows up till seven.

Maybe I'll get in maybe 15 minutes early just to make sure things are set up.

And you know what?

The last person leaves at eight o'clock, but you know what?

If I trust that person at eight o'clock, I can leave a little bit earlier before then and
make sure they'd have my number and text me if there's anything in support.

We know we're good to go there.

I don't have to be so worried about this stuff.

The first lens of...

I am no longer responsible for the success of my business.

It's my people who are, but I'm responsible for my people.

That's the first way you have to start thinking about leadership.

And fundamentally, most people I talk to who are the naysayers go, huh.

Or sometimes they still are like, nope, nope, nope.

I still got to do all by myself.

But then we go down the rabbit hole.

Says, okay, got it.

You got a really tough business.

It's really technical.

I get it.

What are your challenges right now?

And you know what they start saying?

Well, this employee sucks and that employee sucks and I've got terrible employees here and
my boss sucks and these challenges come up and customers are never happy and what ends up

happening is they start blaming the world.

It's the world's fault for everything.

If only the world was perfect, then things would be fine.

But that's not how this works.

And I think you have something to say about that, don't you?

Well, I just, we've, you and I have talked about this a little bit in the past, pieces of
this anyway, and I have seen so clearly people try to lead by taking more and more and

more control.

And I have yet to ever see that work.

I have yet to ever see a situation where, okay, we fucking solved it.

Outside of like a literal, hey, that's a fire.

Give me the fire extinguisher.

You call 911.

Like if it is a systemic thing that will go on for more than a one minute, this does not
do anything.

And it boggles the mind a little bit as to, and perhaps you will tell us, what is the
drive there that makes people lock into this very ineffective method rather than pursue

something else?

that's a great question.

What is the drive there?

And you know what?

I wouldn't say it's drive, but it's something you know very well, which is fear.

It's fear related to lack of education, lack of knowledge.

It's fear from relating to my name is going to look bad.

I'm going to look bad if this falls apart.

And so it comes from a selfish place, not from a selfless place.

And I would argue that if that's where that comes from,

That's not leading for your people, that's leading for yourself.

And we see what that looks like all the time.

again, to my listeners, I'm pointing about the world in chaos has lots of leaders in name
and name only.

I would not say they're leading for the people.

We know a person that leads for the people when that happens.

They care for their people, they ask questions, they stop and hey, how are you doing?

And they go, yeah, I'm fine.

And no, I didn't ask that.

How are you?

really doing because I care about you because the most important thing to me is that
you're feeling good.

And yes, take the Machiavellian route, John.

I do kind of only care that you feel good that way, the job gets done that way.

I do look good.

If you want to go down that weird proverbial rabbit hole, we can, but I still got to care
how you're doing about this.

The most important thing for me isn't if the business is successful or not.

The business is going to succeed on a lot of different metrics beyond just like one guy,
one girl.

I'm not the one who's gonna make everything happen.

It's gonna be a lot of different factors.

And the only way to diagnose that and to make sure that it actually drives it is if you
look at the systems in place and try to diagnose what's working and what's not.

So that's the other element to it is you gotta step out.

You're not, get out of the trenches.

If your solution to everything is get involved and roll your sleeves up, well guess what?

The system isn't gonna change unless that stops.

Because the system knows every time that happens, you step in and fix the problems.

that's our fail safe is every time Sam just steps in and does the thing.

Every time I need help, Sam does steps the thing.

I have a colleague, uh name is Shania.

You know, I'm trying to develop her, but she's not going to get developed.

Every time a problem comes up, I keep rolling up my sleeves and solving the problem.

Meanwhile, she thinks that's her job that every time a big problem comes up, alert Sam and
Sam just does it for me.

That's I'm feeling good about that.

I guess you can't develop people that way.

It's about your people.

And the amount of times I talk to people, John.

85 % of the time they're like, yes, absolutely, that makes total sense.

100 % I'm with you, absolutely.

About 15%, they're like, no, no, I gotta get the things done.

And again, the question is, okay, let's have that conversation.

Maybe I'm wrong, because I love being wrong, because then we can have that awesome
conversation.

What are your challenges?

And they go back to pointing fingers at everything, because they start looking at
everyone.

And the implication is, if the world was perfect, then of course my job would be perfect.

And that's not how the world.

Yeah.

And the beautiful thing about this concept is anyone can view it this way.

Anyone can view it like you're responsible for the people.

You forget the last part, success, the people focus on that, but you're responsible for
the people.

And that gets to my second lens, which is related to this, because you asked a really good
question about it.

The second lens is about trust.

You ever heard the phrase trust and verify?

It's a common phrase people say quite a bit, right?

Like, yeah, I'll trust you, but I'm going to verify what you do first.

yeah.

Right, that kind of thing.

Or people often say, you know, I can't trust you until you've proven you're trustworthy to
me.

What's wrong with that, John?

Well, I off the cuff, it feels like it's a pretty skeptical thing.

And there's a level of like, I don't know, it's fun to have a tense who knows who to trust
during a murder mystery game.

It's not fun at all to do during my fucking job.

And it will, if you say that to me, my immediate automatic response as person who also
works with you would be like, cool, I also feel the same.

I do not trust you anymore.

We're gonna need to establish a groundwork because this is.

So there's safety, like there's the fucking idea of safety, this is gonna slow a machine
down that could otherwise not do that.

oh

I think even if I don't tell you that I don't trust you until you prove yourself to me,
you can tell.

Human beings are really good at that.

Human beings, we're not good at much, but one of the things brains are fucking fantastic
at, is knowing the difference between someone's projected intent versus their actions.

And if there's a disconnect, bam, something happens and we go into hyperprotective mode,
right?

So if I...

Just through whatever micro actions my leader does, get the impression my leader doesn't
trust me, and we're really good at detecting that, that makes you feel like shit.

Makes you feel like you don't want to operate.

Makes you, as John said, I don't want to trust you anymore, but I kind of have to trust
you because you're the one that like, you know, gets me my pay and stuff.

And it creates this weird power dynamic that's just awful for everyone involved.

And oftentimes what people say is, well, it takes like two years to get good at this job,
so I can't trust you until you prove your worth.

Okay, let's pretend that's true.

And maybe training's required, I'm not saying it's not.

And maybe it's an extent, know, lot of the jobs I work with, you know, they're out in the
field, they're out in manufacturing.

It's a trade, it takes a long time.

I'm not denying that.

But hold on, hold on.

Two years before you can trust someone?

That's a lot of wasted time, because the amount of time it takes to scrutinize and be
skeptical for someone is a lot of emotional energy and physical energy and time versus the

opposite, which is I'm gonna trust you right away.

And then you prove me wrong, then we'll recalibrate.

That's a lot less energy and a lot less time.

And then they always say, I can't trust someone right away.

I can't, it's not possible.

Can't do it, can't trust someone.

Why not?

They gotta prove themselves, gotta prove themselves.

We have this lovely dialogue, we have this great conversation.

And eventually we come down to the place of where I ask.

So it sounds like you have a very complex web of systems in place to ensure a positive
value that gives you permission to trust someone.

And that complex web of values that you have is something you've made yourself, which, you
know, I'm not the psychologist in the room, but you know, I'm sure there's deep psychology

there as to why that person felt that was necessary.

And I say, that's pretty impressive.

You made all that.

You know what that tells me?

The choice of trust was always yours.

And you're the one choosing to either trust someone or not.

Which is the second lens, Trust is a choice.

People often say it's not.

no.

I can only trust if it organically happens.

I can only trust if you've proven yourself to me.

I can only trust if you've done the checklist for me.

No, you can trust right away.

Bam, done.

Unless it's an immediate life-threatening thing and you have reason to believe it's gonna
threaten your life, which 99 % of your life, hopefully you're not experiencing that, in

the workplace especially, you can trust immediately.

can trust immediately.

And part of trust goes into being responsible for your people.

I have to trust my people, otherwise things can't get done.

And I have to be responsible for them.

And in order for all the things to get done, I can't be Superman.

I have to give them my trust.

Now the scary thing is, well, what if I trust them and things go wrong?

I'm sure you deal with this all the time, John.

have people that have a lot of anxiety.

They have people on their team.

They want to trust them, but they can't.

Maybe they're underdeveloped.

Maybe, I would trust Jim, but every time Jim does this, he has this quirk where he takes
up too much time and then we miss a deadline and it's a huge problem.

Or, I would trust Jessica, but every time we do this, they have all these reasons.

And I wonder if I could ask you then for some insight in terms of the psychology of

Intellectually knowing it's in our best interest to trust, it's in our best interest to
allow for failure, give permission to fail, and then course correct from there, but we

still protect ourselves and not do it.

Even in the workplace of all places, we still do this.

What makes us do that?

great question.

Two part answer.

uh The first part, which you will get very sick of if you listen to me talk, because it's
kind of a big deal, out, is what you're raised around is what you believe the world is.

So if you come from a home where people are like, hey man, shit's hard, but I'm here for
you, but you can tell me stuff, like you're much more willing to trust.

There are people who meet teachers when they go to school for the first time and they're
like, well, I can trust this person.

And there's people who go there and are like, that is a predator.

I need to watch myself.

So what you learn early is a big deal.

And then the second one.

I also talk about this other thing, it's optimism.

um Depending on where you, yeah, yeah, where you've been in life, you learn to have a
pessimistic or optimistic look based on a fucking ton of factors.

We've talked about this a little before.

So that's an episode as well.

But if you are a person who has learned that the world is a harsh place, not just from
your parents, but from previous interactions, if I, you know, I have a friend, I'm like,

hey man, what's up?

He's like, I'm having a tough time.

Can you spot me some money?

I'm like, yeah, for sure.

And then he like fucks me over.

I'm like,

cool, that didn't work and the trust erodes and it becomes, it starts to just feel like
bad math.

It's like people are like, hey, we're doing a startup business.

If you give us $10,000, you could be a millionaire.

You're like, wow, that's fucking great.

Here you go.

Oh my God, they're gone.

And that's super terrifying.

But conversely, what I would offer you is when you do start by giving somebody trust, you
don't start by saying, here's my social security number.

This is a list of my top 10 fears.

You say, cool, I will trust you with the competence to do this thing.

And if you want to get real fancy, can say, I will trust you with that you will be sincere
and authentic in how you respond to me.

And like Sam was saying earlier, we can sniff this shit out and it makes a difference.

When I've had uh employers who I've worked for, trust me, I'm immediately like, want to do
right by them.

And it, is such a low risk thing to trust somebody with the things that I just mentioned.

but it feels like this is the social security number one, the house key one.

It feels like you're giving them everything.

So it comes from a place of I've been burned before my resources are unsteady and my
general view is pessimistic.

My general view is I am hunted My general view is I'm not safe.

And it's fucking hard to shake that because it kind of worms its way into who you are.

Yeah, you're right.

That your your parental factors, your environmental factors.

Gosh, man, we are we are so molded by our early neuroplastic years.

is unfortunate to try to undo that, if at all it is a possible, by the way, but it's a lot
of work.

And that's one of the unfortunate things.

I think also.

When the trust factor comes in and says, hey, what if what if they do this, what if they
do that, what if I trust them and it goes wrong?

You know, there's there's a fear of like they're going to hurt me, right?

What I like to ask the question is, you you have the power over what people can hurt you
with or not.

You decide that.

I had a very good uh comrade of mine warn me against trusting one individual.

And uh it was a very well-intended conversation.

Like, hey, I'd watch out.

I wouldn't know about X, Y, Z, that person, whatever.

And I'm like, hold on.

I've weighed the factors.

This person can't hurt me.

Even if what you say

happens happens, which I don't think it's going to, that won't hurt me.

That literally cannot hurt me.

That's kind of what they will choose to do and it won't mean a darn thing for me.

And there's something about a leader who knows that, like, you can't hurt me, but I have
everything to give to you and to empower to you and I want to and I want to trust you.

Okay, this could go absolutely ape wall.

We could have a real shit show on our hands.

We'll be okay.

Unless it kills someone.

Again.

There are certain sectors of the business, like in healthcare, you don't mess with some
stuff.

There's certain procedures, this is about life or death, but a lot of other things.

This won't hurt me.

This won't affect me.

You get to decide that.

You, having the fear that someone's gonna hurt you, has already presupposed that they
will, and that's not fair to them.

Because as we talked about, every person on this planet is a protagonist of their own
story.

They want to do good.

And when you show trust, as John says, gosh, I wanna do good for that person.

They trusted in me.

That's massive.

I want to do right.

And it's amazing what I've seen when you do that for people.

It's amazing the amount times at work I've been told, don't trust this one person.

And I'm like, okay, cool.

Do you have documented evidence to suggest why I should not trust this person?

Of course they don't.

Okay.

I'm going to trust them.

And I trust them.

I have a great heart to heart conversation and their face lights up.

And it's like, they have been in a world for however long where people haven't trusted
them.

for whatever reason and it's baggage I don't know anything about, but seeing them light up
and go, finally I can live again and they can shine more times than not.

And the few times where I trust someone and it goes haywire, I don't regret it that much
because I've decided when I trust someone that the risk is so insignificant that, what's

the worst thing?

I'll feel bad, that'll sting, okay, but I'm gonna keep doing it because the gift is so
much more worth the return than anything else.

So when it comes to being responsible for your people, it has to be hand in hand with
choosing to trust them almost immediately.

You get into that brand new role, you got brand new people you've never met before, trust
them, why not?

They've been in that role for a while, they've got the expertise, they know what they're
doing.

In fact, I'm do a case study with Prada.

Prada has this uh policy, and I'm gonna get the numbers wrong, but I think it's something
like 60 days.

You get a new promotion at Prada, for 60 days, you're not allowed to speak at any meeting.

You're not allowed to speak because this ties into like a third lens I have, but we'll
just do a taster right now for it.

They know that when you become a leader, you feel the need to prove yourself.

And they're like, no, you don't need to prove yourself.

If we've elected you to be this up and coming leader, we already know you have the skill
set.

We know it.

You don't need to prove yourself.

So we give you that 60 day buffer to listen, to absorb, to ask questions, if at all.

And we don't want any of your dumb, stupid leadership insight until after that time when
that part of your brain has calmed down.

It's one of the things I love.

And that gives you more permission to ask questions of the people who've been in that
position for a long time, learn from them, build a bond with them, trust them, and then

you'll want to be more responsible for them than you ever have been.

Now, I say about all this, John, and I'm talking a lot corporate job nonsense, but you can
apply this to family life.

You can apply this to community.

Literally, you decide who you want to be responsible for.

It doesn't have to be just your kin.

It can be anyone.

Like, I'm responsible for this person.

I want to make sure this person's successful in whatever way is safe for you.

I'm not saying that you should give someone $10,000 when that's all the money you have and
put yourself in alert, but you have the ability to make those choices.

And in that same choice, you have the ability to trust people.

Of course, when they burn down that bridge on that personal level,

and they've broken a bridge too many, you also have the same exact choice to say, I'm not
choosing trust anymore.

But I think it's a premature thing to not choose trust right off the gate, because even if
you decide to do the opposite, I'm gonna not trust you until you prove you're trustworthy,

that puts people in an impossible situation, an impossible situation of angst that they
might not ever be able to overcome.

And you are spending so much energy and effort just to...

make someone go through a minefield to penetrate a part of your heart that you've always
wanted them to in the first place, that doesn't make any sense.

Yeah, it's I think a framework that I really like for this and many other paradigms is
like Not like do it because it's right do it because you you Like you believe in it like

you love it like you're and frankly you're fucking brave It is scary to trust people it is
fucking baby shit easy to be like no I'm gonna close off from like that's anyone can

fucking do that.

It is a default setting.

It is boring.

It's it's lame

Conversely if you can say, no I'm gonna swing for the fences.

I want to have a life with a little bit of sauce and a little adventure.

I want to feel so much shit unlocks and it takes courage.

Turns out all the hard shit, all the good shit takes courage.

It's okay if you don't have that right now.

Remember you can only be brave when you're afraid.

That is the context you have to have in order for that to.

Yeah.

But I know this is anecdotal, let me tell you, my line of work, when you go to meet a
therapist, especially if it's your first therapist, it's about to be real fucking weird,

because there's a person there who's like, hi, I'm a person you haven't met, tell me all
of your secrets.

And not like, that's not what we say, but there's this level of like, this is so
vulnerable, I don't know you, can I trust this?

And there's this apprehension, and people do it, and admittedly, little easier in theory
to trust a therapist, because we are fucking very strict rules around, we have to be

trustworthy.

And you can just see people feel so much safer when they're like, oh, okay, I invested
some trust, it didn't blow up.

And that's a model, that's a model.

Therapy is a real relationship, it's an actual relationship, it's just made in a lab.

So you can test it out in a safe place, try it elsewhere.

I've had so many people get just a goal from me, like go do basic trust.

Like I'm talking like, go to a cafe, put down your fucking pen and say, hey man, can you
watch this for five seconds?

because psychologically your brain, your amygdala is like, ugh, and then it goes, okay.

And you start to view other people just automatically as less hostile, as less dangerous.

And holy fuck, that is freeing.

Yeah, it is.

And in fact, if anyone listening or watching, that's right, I'll play to both sides for
right now, wants to try this.

After listening to this episode, find someone in your life.

Maybe you already trust them.

That's an easy way to do it.

Find someone that you think you trust, but maybe you're on the fence about.

Really stretch yourself a little bit.

Have a conversation with that person.

And at some point, use the exact words, I trust you.

Literally say those words.

and you will be so surprised the reaction they have.

It will literally change.

I almost love that better than I love you.

Not really, because I love you has so many more things, but like saying I trust you is
like.

Because people crave trusting relationships.

People love building connections, John.

The person that's in the corner that wants to be by themselves, that's, you know, they
don't talk to anyone.

They want it more than anyone else.

Literally just saying those words, I trust you is huge.

And there's this big myth that trust is only built organically over time and it just takes
a while.

No, you can speed that up real quick.

And it starts with you making that choice.

Two things, one, it is true that it's built organically over time, but that's dumb in the
same way that grief heals organically over time, but that doesn't mean shouldn't talk

about your fucking sadness, right?

You can accelerate the way these things grow by approaching them and having that courage
to bring it up.

if you're a depressed person, there's a chance you never talked to the airbrush or
anybody, you'll fucking get better in fucking 10 years.

Trust me, I know, because I did it, and it was a terrible, horrible way, and I don't
recommend it to anybody.

It is better to trust people and I know that it's hard to go there.

Secondly, I'm about to give a shout out to my favorite show in the world, which is
Detroiters, Tim Robinson in Detroiters.

If you ever watch I Think You Should Leave, like this is too fucking grimy for me, can't
do it too awkward, cool, try Detroiters.

Detroiters is a show, it's a deserted comedy, but it's also very subtly a thing about male
friendships and they do things that are absurd, as I just mentioned.

And there's one scene where one character is talking to his friend and his friend's about
to leave and he says, hey, friend turns around he goes.

I love you and I trust you.

And it's like a little funny cute thing, but also per the rules of humor, it's funny
because you don't expect it, right?

That's contrast with what's normal for us.

But how fucked up is it that it's like weird for me to be like, I love you and I trust you
to a person that I, in my life, like that should be the default.

That should be the fucking default.

And it's, think it's really actually a very clever way of illustrating.

Obviously it's funny, but it's a clever way of illustrating like this is weird that we
don't get to be pals with our buds.

We don't get to be like, no, I see you and I'm here for you and I trust you.

And if you, would,

I would gas up the two guys I'm on this show with.

I do love them both and I trust them both.

And it's been really fucking good for me.

There's a reason that I look forward to doing this show every week because it just feels
good to be with people that I trust.

And I would also tell you, like, when Sam approached us about doing this, it was very much
like, here's the thing, man, are you, it wasn't like, are you in sales pitch?

was like, you want to do this?

Do you want to?

And I know speaking for Daniel and myself, it was like, yes, I absolutely want to fucking
do this.

And I trust you.

The last part wasn't said necessarily out loud, but that's why it works.

That's why we're doing it.

That's why we're on episode 11 instead of episode one or two, because we've just been
fucking chugging away, because it's a thing that we do.

And dear other thing, like psychologically, human brains need trust.

At the end of the day, we're animals.

And if you're an animal and you don't trust any other animals, picture a caged dog at like
a shelter who doesn't trust the people who are there to take care of it.

That's you.

That's your fucking brain.

That's what that feels like.

You're scared all the time.

Who's going to hurt you?

Is this food okay?

Can you have this?

Can you trust that person to come back?

That's a terrible way to be.

It's exhausting and terrifying.

And then I'm gonna cry, because my dog's over here and he's so cute.

We got him from a shelter.

I remember the day he came home, he like wouldn't like get on the couch.

When he would, be like, one little paw.

He was like, please don't get mad at me.

And now he's just like, he just trusts me.

He knows the food's coming.

He knows the pets are coming and he's chill and he's happy.

You deserve as good of a life as my dog.

That's a very fair statement, whoever you are.

Absolutely.

Yeah, it's a universal right.

Not even right.

It's like food.

You need it.

You need it.

And so I end this segment with what I often get to the most recalcitrant of people.

says, Sam, I didn't sign up to be big district manager of this big firm to be people's
therapist.

That's their therapist's job now.

and we laugh, but maybe not.

I'm sorry.

don't wish to take therapists out of their job.

I have a good friend who's a therapist.

But maybe they spend less time with their therapist and more time with building
relationships and cultivating things if everyone in their life, including their boss, gave

just a little bit of a shit about them.

Maybe.

Because again, I know from a friend who's a therapist, he's trying to work himself out of
a job and you're making that real hard for

ah That was so...

That's what I was gonna fucking say!

Like, I don't want to end on your beautifully poignant note, but like...

I mean, I do want to end on that, but like, the idea of like, I don't want to be your
therapist, that's fucking weird.

That's like, someone's like, hey man, can you pass me the fucking scissors?

I'm like, I don't want to be your servant!

Like, what the fuck?

Like, if the purview of therapists is basic compassion, you are not a healthy person.

Like, I have some really fancy therapist moves.

I got a couple of cool things.

Joe doesn't know about and can't just whip out and do and you know, yay for me but like
basic kindness like default levels of human trust.

No sir, that's your that's your job and if you ever got away from that it's because you
forgot what was important and I don't mean that in like a shame way I mean that like

biologically this is how you have a community this is how you thrive and also how get
people to like you.

Don't don't gatekeep being a human.

behind fucking policy, you asshole.

Sorry if that wasn't nice.

Frustrating.

Hi.

Hi.

Hi, it's John of the Zero Dot podcast.

uh So stoked that you've been hanging out with and watching us.

And if you haven't, I'm ambushing anyway and I apologize.

And I'm asking you to do me a favor, We'll put some links here that you can click on to
send us something.

There's all kinds of ways to do it.

but I really feel like this show and frankly our fucking agenda is at its best when we're
connecting.

So please, if you have a question for Sam or I about our experiences, areas of expertise
or anything else, let it rip, send it below and we will talk soon my friend.

Take care.

uh I'm going to steal a story from Simon Sinek, is a motivational speaker as well.

He's one of the good ones.

By the way, what I do has a Venn diagram to self-help, and I'm very critical of self-help,
but he's one of the good guys.

uh And he tells the story about you always have a choice as a leader.

You can make this choice when you talk to someone.

You can have two types of conversations.

One conversation is, hey, John, your numbers have been down two months in a row.

If we don't shape this up by the end of the quarter, I can't say for certain what's going
to happen.

Or the other conversation, hey, John, your numbers have been down two months in a row.

How are you doing?

I'm worried about you.

Is everything OK?

And you might say, I'm really sorry about the numbers.

No, fuck that.

I'm noticing the behavior, and I just want to know, this isn't like you.

Come in.

Close the door, let's talk, what's going on?

And every person has that choice every day.

And it doesn't matter what title is, doesn't matter how much money you're getting paid,
you can make the choice.

And I'm here to tell you from the social sciences, from the literature, from everything we
see, one of those choices is far more beneficial to you, your team, and if you really care

about your company's success, success to your company.

I'll let you decide which

I just, see this all the time.

I see this all the time where people will have good leaders or people who are good leaders
invite you behind the curtain and they just are like, are you good?

Are you okay?

I was noticing that I, it's not the, have concerns about you.

It's that I've been seeing that maybe you're struggling.

People just crack, just open their shit up and then they improve almost immediately.

Cause the shit they were carrying by themselves can now be fixed.

Humans are a team sport, man.

You can't fucking do this shit alone.

And if you think you can, well, A, you're a teenager, good luck, you're about to hit your
head really fucking hard, and B, you're a narcissistic sociopath, or C, you've been hurt

by a bunch of lies propagated by some stupid shit.

So if you're C, which most of you will be, there's such a gentle or better world out
there.

You're already worthy of it, you're equipped for it, you belong in it, we want you over
here.

Let people have that room.

I've been that guy, by the way.

When I was doing my graduate internship, I was fucking drowning, man.

Like I was working like 80 hours a week.

I was commuting between two sites, both of which were pretty intense.

I was working in a different town, like 45 minutes away than where I lived.

I had been kicked out of the place I was living, because the people who living there were
going through some shit.

I back with my parents, which was about as fun as, I love my parents, but like not the
vibe at that age.

It wasn't fun.

And then my site supervisors from two different sites were in the same building.

I was like, that's probably not good.

That's probably about me.

And it was, and they were like, hey man, come on down.

And they were a little scared about it.

But then they were like, are you okay?

We don't know that you're qualified to do this if you can't do X, Y, and Z.

And I was like, well, here's all my stuff.

And they were like, oh, why didn't you tell us?

And I was like, cause I wanted you to think I was good.

I walked into the trap man, as a therapist, right?

So like.

I was glad that they had that intervention, effectively, but I feel like twofold.

One, if you're the offerer of the intervention, you know, do it sooner, do it
compassionate, people will receive it.

They will.

And if you're the one who's hurting, same thing, trust other side of the street being
like, hey person, I'm hurting.

I would like very much to make this better.

Here's what I'm going through.

I want to let you know.

Dear person who has done that very thing to a boss and that boss let you go because
they're a fuckhead, I'm fucking sorry.

but you shouldn't have worked there anyway.

And not in a blame you way, in a way of you just dodged a much bigger and worse bullet
later.

absolutely.

And I know when that happens, because it's happened to me.

You give somebody some really vulnerable shit and they use it against you or the floor
falls out, right?

Like that teaches you a bunch of things.

But the only thing it should teach you is this is a really great place to not be.

This is a person who needs no further investment at this time.

teach you the shame thing.

There's nothing wrong with you.

It should teach you that's not the place for you, which statistically should make sense
because there's eight billion of us.

Not every place is going to be for us and that's fine.

And it's all a game of finding the right place.

Absolutely.

And what a difference it makes when you do.

Yeah, my gosh, man.

It's the best.

And you go, why the hell wasn't I here before?

And you go, right, because I was finding this place.

Took me like forever.

Geez Louise.

Well, thanks for indulging me on the first two of the 12 lenses of leadership.

These are things that I think that anyone can benefit from.

So if you have an interest in just being there for your community, much less anything
else, but if you want to look really impressive for the next job interview, then you've

got the right mindset here, just starting with these first two.

We'll be going through all 12 at some point through ZeroDop.

I thought we'd start for the first two, so don't worry.

We're going to get saucy with that.

But I believe, I believe we have a user-submitted question that we need to address before
we wrap things up.

Yeah.

Let's do it.

that correct, my lovely compatriot Daniel?

Correct.

Let me get my two lenses.

uh Only at Zero Dot.

uh Viewers, just so know, nothing funny or cool or punny just happened.

Nope.

Nope.

Nothing at all.

I must keep my arms crossed and be in command at all times.

So, do you have any advice for people who are finding it hard to react to compliments and
intimacy?

So personally, I lost a lot of weight over the last few years and suddenly find myself in
a relationship with someone who finds me attractive for the first time.

Good for you.

That's great stuff.

And I'm getting random compliments from coworkers and strangers.

when I receive things like this it's a really uncomfortable feeling.

I'd be interested in hearing your take on this.

Thank you, Daniel.

Thank you to the anonymous person that submitted this question.

uh I know John has many thoughts while he scrambles to type up those thoughts.

will do the thing where I just want to say, before we address the question, I want to know
that I feel you and I hear you, The first part of your question is, know, dealing with

compliments in a space where you might not have received them before.

And to you, you are the same person.

Nothing has changed here, but you feel like maybe something has changed and people are

treating you differently and you're not sure how to take that.

I want you to know, man, you're not alone here.

I don't want to say it's a common phenomenon, but it's things a lot of people face and I
hear you and that has to be uncomfortable.

And I'm sorry, because on your side of things, again, according to the question, lost a
lot of weight.

I'm assuming it was for good things.

I'm assuming you did it for positive things.

Good for you.

Super fantastic.

Now, what I love about the question is that you were so sensitive to the idea that

Are we developing a trap of a feedback loop here that if I look a certain way, do a
certain thing, do things, that's how people will validate me and see me more.

When you know deep down, that's not where your self-worth comes from.

I'm hearing that conflict in the question as well.

So I really appreciate this question because there's nuance here.

it's to the person that asked the question, I'm sorry.

That's a very uncomfortable position.

It's not fun.

Which is weird because when you feel this,

And if you were to say this to anyone else, going back to our trust concept, they'd be
like, what are you complaining about?

You should be happy.

You you're getting compliments now.

People are receiving you in a certain kind of way.

You're attractive.

But then before long, you might have them say something like, you're more attractive now.

Whoa, hold on.

Why am I more attractive?

And I'm sure that's where this question's coming from, this place of like, this feels
wrong.

This feels off.

So just want to validate that.

And thank you for sharing the question before I dive any deeper into it.

John has one million and one thoughts,

I do have specifically six, so I'll try to be efficient.

The first one is, hey person, yay for fucking you, that's awesome.

I'm glad that you're having some things that are going in a way that is leading to these
positive things.

If you're in a situation, you're getting positive feedback, it's pretty fucking cool,
hooray for you.

I hate saying hooray for you because it sounds inherently sarcastic, but like genuinely
like, love that for you man, or woman, whoever you are, I'm a big fan.

Thing number two, I would talk about brains and how brains are fucking hilarious.

Because when they aren't used to a thing, they're like, wait a minute, that shit's
suspicious.

There's a cute thing called driving sickness, where you'll be in a car and you look out
the window and sure enough, the terrain is passing you right by.

And then your body's like, I'm not moving though.

Something's wrong.

I'm poisoned.

And that's why you get nauseous when you're driving.

That's a real thing.

Because your brain can't deal with conflicting information.

This is the same thing.

Previously,

You may have had negative input where people were like, you are bad, you do not look good.

I hope that didn't happen, but it's possible.

Most of us have received that.

If you've been to junior high, somebody said that.

But we've also received an absence of information.

So if I'm a fucking funny, sweet dude and no one has told me this and someone goes, man,
you're a funny, sweet dude.

I wanna hear that so bad, that feels so nice.

But I'm like, well then why did nobody else tell me that?

What are you doing?

Is this like a thing?

you trying to, do you want money?

You can just say you want money.

We can skip over all this fake shit because it feels insincere because it's new.

And what you are doing, dear wonderful person, is you're building a new little neural
pathway in your brain that lets you sit with this shit and feel it.

I give a quick shout out to one of my clients.

Loved this, loved when she did this.

Had a client the other day and I said something along the lines like, damn it, I love the
way your brain works.

The way you solve a puzzle so quickly in your head and come up with solutions and it can
be so transparent, so amazing.

And she said thanks.

Anyway, and then she,

interrupted herself and she went, no, I wanna go back and sit with that for a second.

I wanna feel that.

And she just sat there in silence for like five, 10 seconds and said, thank you genuinely,
that felt really good.

And I like fucking popped off her, I was so happy, that was such a fucking cool moment.

But how fucking scary is that?

To be in the moment and be like, yeah, no, I'm choosing this good thing because now, what
if the person goes, you psych, you suck, or what if nobody says that for a while, or what

if.

And for the record, what if almost always not a useful thought?

What ifs, typically not a very useful thought.

We can talk about the actual utilitarian nature of another time, but what I think you
wanna do, per my opinion, is you wanna develop.

reasons, John is not your therapist.

I'm a leadership consultant.

This is just homies talking to homies and just giving general opinions.

That's it.

Moving

on.

uh

I'm not your therapist, but I'm your virtual pal, and that's pretty good, says I.

But I am also your fellow human, and I do wanna join with you in this and help you out
with it.

The modality that I recommend with this is we're teaching your brain to sit with a new
thing and accept it, right?

There's a thing that I see all the time, this is like one of my agendas, is when I am
working with dudes, I try to give dudes compliments, because I feel like, as a creature,

the dude does not give or receive compliments outside of the context of a romantic
relationship.

And that's fucking dumb because compliments are awesome.

And I'll be like, oh dude, that's a sick sweater.

Like that's a fucking cool hat.

That's a fun tie.

Or like that was fucking hilarious.

And you'll see people be like, thanks.

Thanks.

And what they're doing and what happens if my ploy goes correctly is with time, it just
will stop activating the part of their brain.

So what you can do to help that speed up, a of the topic du jour.

invited in and sit with it a little bit.

So what we typically do is called shunting, where someone's like, you're good and you're
like, nope!

Or you're like, thanks but blah blah blah.

my god, I'm a midwesterner and we do this really cute thing where you'll be like, hey man,
I like your hoodie.

I'll be like, thanks, someone else got it for me.

It's not my own idea.

I should not get any credit for this.

This is like a humility thing, but humility also is so frequently toxic and I have a whole
fucking thing.

What I want you to do, dear person, is find verbiage that allows you to acknowledge the
compliment for more than one second.

I'm talking like three seconds.

But you can go, what I like to do is I like to move my body and I go like, wow, thank you,
that felt really good.

And just say it.

You're just announcing that it felt good.

Because they can be like, whoa, I tricked you.

you're like, well, that sucks.

But at the same time, you aren't saying like, I'm buying into your schema.

It's a super low investment.

You go, thanks.

I think I like to say too, is like, wow, thanks, that made my day.

Oh my God.

I got a little Christmas card from one of my clients that was just, and it was just like,
you are a good therapist, you've made a difference in my life.

And I took a second, I was like, wow, that is really nice, that really made my day, thank
you so much.

And I think they were more uncomfortable than I was.

But like, this is a high tide raises all boats thing.

Because the person who gives you the compliment, they want you to feel good, and if you
show them that you do,

They'll feel good.

It's a beautiful cyclical, we're supposed to do it.

Humans are supposed to do this.

So don't shunt it, find a way to sit with it.

The verbages that I like, like I said before, are thank you so much, that makes my day,
that feels really good, feel free to create your own.

And then also, small doses is best.

So you don't have to be like an on and on, thank you so much, really self-effacing.

But just take the time.

And if you want, you can do a little bonus, a little follow-up.

And the next time you see that person, you'll be like, the other day when you said that,
by the way, that made my fucking day.

Thank you so much.

And you're teaching your brain it's okay to acknowledge this.

And you're also teaching their brain, like, what a fucking lovely impact they made.

I have a bonus thing here, it comes really fast.

um Sam mentioned self-worth.

Attractiveness.

And this is a big thing.

This is especially a thing for my women homies, which is people will be like, damn, you're
fucking hot.

And then it's like, cool, thanks.

Am I just hot?

that kind of what I am to you?

It's not exclusive to women but they get a little more of this.

And Aval, no it's not you're better than that you're more than that.

But you always want to have a couple of pillars of what self-worth is and I want you dear
person to go and enrich those things so if you have one that like is newly budding for

attractiveness, hey fucking cool water that shit enjoy it have a great time.

But I think finding other ways um to to trust that there are good things about you.

And I also would talk about

the whole second thing.

uh But like not seeking compliments, but seeking validation of those pillars.

Someone gave me this recently.

Look at that, it's a raccoons eating trash, laughing.

I love it so very much.

And I told that person, you're a really good gift giver.

That was really cool, thank you so much.

And I also told that person other nice things.

But I'm a therapist.

And I did so intentionally to be like, you're not just a gift giver.

I know that might sound a little silly, But like, this is the thing you can do to water
other people's self-esteem too.

Mm-hmm.

compliment other parts of them.

If you are also, okay, bonus fucking fourth thing, if you are struggling to receive
compliments, start giving them more.

Because it will help your brain swim in those waters and get used to that ecosystem.

And you'll be like, okay, so is it burdening me hella bad to like fucking compliment
people?

No, it won't be.

And if it is, don't compliment those people anymore, because you're talking about people.

uh Okay, I've been writing a lot.

I'm just very excited for you, person.

I'm fucking pumped for you.

Thanks for writing in and congrats on the changes.

I hope they're stripping you well.

Yeah, I have a couple things to add on John.

What John said was absolutely fantastic.

know, receiving the compliment and giving yourself a beat to absorb it is really
important, especially as a fellow shunter.

I used to shunt everything.

It took a lot of it's still hard for me.

But when I get a compliment, go, thank you.

That means a lot.

And half of what I'm doing is just saying them the words very slowly to allow the words
that you just said to really sit with me.

So that way I don't I don't force myself to run away.

That's the one side.

But I wanna speak to the side of this question that is, again, it was implied, it wasn't
quite said, but it's like, is this person thinking of me differently now?

Am I different?

And I wanna give you some permission here.

I'm assuming the weight loss was a choice.

Let's say that's what it was.

You decided to lose the weight and you're proud of that and it was accomplishment.

First of all, congrats, that's fantastic.

When you made that choice, you also made a choice to actually become a different person.

You didn't make a choice just to do a thing.

You made a choice, I want to be the kind of person that does the things, whatever that is,
nutrition, health, et cetera, that has this.

And so you did this, you forged that path.

And so when you get compliments from people and they seem sudden and it seems strange to
you, what you're picking up on is people going, you're different now, and that's

unsettling.

But I want you to lean into that just a little bit and go, I have changed into the person
that people are noticing now.

Because what happens is people had an avatar for you, and it could have been wrong.

Could have been right, who knows?

And now it's shifted.

And just recognizing that people are noticing the change is magnificent and massive.

And lean into that and just realize what else other comments they have about you.

Especially if it's innate, like you're pretty, you're hot, whatever.

Throw that stuff in the garbage.

That's more indicative of their perception of you.

What's important is that what you know about yourself, which is you've become a different
person, you've done that through actions.

And John was saying before,

really great compliments, really focus in on behaviors and actions, not attributes, not
innate things.

And so if someone is trying to give you a compliment and they're not quite sure how to do
that, don't begrudge them, don't be upset at them.

They're trying, know, and lean into it, let them give them the grace as much as you can.

But if they really are struggling in that capacity, it's not about you, it's about them.

But again, accept the fact that you have become a different person because you executed a
plan and you're doing it and you should be very proud.

So even at the very least, if it's uncomfortable, which I'm with you.

I'm also uncomfortable with compliments.

Take it as a notch like, yeah, I'm doing something.

And that's pretty worthwhile.

Very well said.

It, a little bonus, little bonus thought.

When you make a change, people will notice it long after you've made the change.

I remember one, yeah.

I was at a job once.

I was working.

That's what you do at my job.

And I was doing a group and a dude, just like a dude in my group, was like, damn, Merrick,
you've been lifting?

You're popping on that shirt.

And I was like,

It felt so good.

um But I've been listening for three years.

I don't know why he didn't do that a fucking month ago.

But the point being, they don't correlate with your progress, they don't correlate with
your value.

They're just nice little refuel stops along the road.

And as you learn to give them and receive them, your brain's gonna get gentler.

And it is a trust-based thing, right?

It's what a fucking appropriate, well done.

What an appropriate question for the day.

um Because you are trusting the ecosystem you're in, you're trusting yourself, frankly
that you are worthy of compliments, which is a whole fuckin' other thing.

A of all, you are, just so you know, no matter what, you just are.

I can testify that more later.

uh But letting that be it, knowing a thing and feeling a thing are different.

Had a fuckin' client this week, hit it out of the goddamn park with this one, he said, I
know what I'm doing is right, but it feels so fuckin' wrong, I don't wanna fuckin' know, I

wanna feel right.

Hoo, poignant, smart, feeling right.

is an adaptation and it takes time.

There is no, and now I feel better about it.

If that was a thing, please teach me your ways, because you're the best therapist on the
fucking planet.

Also, you're probably like some sort of magician and or wizard, and that's not probably
ethical, so stop doing that.

that's my side.

So I'm with you.

I'm sorry it's uncomfortable, but I'm also really, really happy for the good vibes coming
your way.

Really happy that you're feeling good about yourself.

And I'm glad people are noticing that about you.

Well, that was the show.

You can tell because there was a sudden jarring cut to me saying that was the show and now
it's concluded.

We hope you had fun.

We hope you learned something.

We hope you felt something.

We hope something happened.

We hope that you were moved in some way.

If you sat there motionless for the entire thing, felt nothing, did nothing and don't
care, also indicate that and I will send a wellness check on you.

We do hope you reach out one way or the other and you watch again soon and we hear from
you.

And goodbye.

I'll miss you.